Hi Wolfgang, I redid some of strc-num so you'd better test it. One difference is that the 'user variants' do some checking due to the dodouble etc An alternative is to have different ones for normal and sub and do something like \def\xxx[#1]#2[#3]{...{#1}{#3}} i.e. hard tex errors instead of warnings. A problem might be that users use \raw*counter which was expandable while now we have ...value alternatives for that (could be done consistently for more commands. Ok, we could keep old ones and use *value for checked ones instead. It all boils down to how compatible we want to be. So ... just an ftp beta and no public one yet. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------