Hi, I am doing a study about context. I wanted to understand context and its interaction with other components in the system. Is there a architecture diagram that could describe it ? Also i want to make context available through fink. For which i need to understand the dependencies of context. Looking for a way to build context from the source manually without using minimal context? Can anyone help me do the compilation manually from source or at-least point to some references to do that? Regards A.Julius Canute
Dear Julius, On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 09:17, Julius Canute wrote:
Also i want to make context available through fink. For which i need to understand the dependencies of context.
Fink? (I hope that you are joking?) Well, seriously, if you want to install ConTeXt in fink, the very first thing that you have to do is to create a package for TeX Live 2010. Come on ... they still have teTeX in their package repository. And if one wants to instal fink's gnuplot, one needs to have teTeX in PATH. I ran away from it due to it being entirely out-of-date. There is a package unicode-tex. Dated 2004, which is pretty much useless in 2011. In theory you could create a package for LuaTeX and then only support ConTeXt MkIV, in any other case (unless you create texlive2010) you would litteraly have to create a rule saying that packages context and tetex conflict with each other, so if you want to have one, you cannot have the other.
Looking for a way to build context from the source manually without using minimal context? Can anyone help me do the compilation manually from source or at-least point to some references to do that?
Do you want to have support for MKIV only or also for MKII? The only things that you need to compile from source are: - MKIV: just luatex - MKII: pdftex, xetex, metapost and some of the files in http://minimals.contextgarden.net/current/bin/common/osx-64/bin/, in particular kpsewhich You might definitely want to compile luatex from source. See http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Minimals/Implementation for the list. The files are available here: http://foundry.supelec.fr/gf/project/luatex/frs/ If you want to compile the other files from source, the least I can say is that you will have to figure it out by yourself or take the binaries from TeX Live. I would definitely suggest you to simply copy the binaries from TeX Live (you can find them in SVN or on CTAN under systems/texlive/ ... as tar.xz packages, you can ask for details). If you want to compile it yourself, you are pretty much on your own. See http://www.tug.org/texlive/build.html for details. Once you have the binaries set up, you will need different bits and pieces from all over the place. You can have a look at http://minimals.contextgarden.net/current to get the idea of what exactly you might need (I can also tell you what comes from where), but you won't find it at a single place. It is like asking for "sources for a linux distribution". Each distribution has to carefully collect bits and pieces and each one does it in a different way. Either way: creating a package for Fink is asking for troubles unless you create a proper TeX Live package first to replace teTeX. It will simplify things enormously for you. A short list of dependencies: - binaries (from TeX Live + latest luatex) - base files for TeX, metapost (I take them from TeX Live) - fonts (I take them from TeX Live) - texmf.cnf, texmfcnf.lua (you will have to write your own) - context itself (you can fetch it from pragma-ade.com) - optional: modules (you can fetch them from dl.contextgarden.net/modules or from CTAN) Mojca
On 16-1-2011 10:38, Mojca Miklavec wrote: .....
Either way: creating a package for Fink is asking for troubles unless you create a proper TeX Live package first to replace teTeX. It will simplify things enormously for you.
A short list of dependencies: - binaries (from TeX Live + latest luatex) - base files for TeX, metapost (I take them from TeX Live) - fonts (I take them from TeX Live) - texmf.cnf, texmfcnf.lua (you will have to write your own) - context itself (you can fetch it from pragma-ade.com) - optional: modules (you can fetch them from dl.contextgarden.net/modules or from CTAN)
Just an additional remark: The minimals started as a (local) subset of tex live. Then Mojca cum suis planted it in the garden, set up a compilation etc infrastructure, and it by now the minimals are the standard installation. As the directory structure is similar to texlive it's easy to support context there as well. The minimals also support additional modules as well as updates to evolving binaries etc. Anyway: being the reference, the garden minimals are the starting point. If one chooses for luatex/mkiv only only a fraction is needed: it could be nice study to see how small it can get. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway: being the reference, the garden minimals are the starting point. If one chooses for luatex/mkiv only only a fraction is needed: it could be nice study to see how small it can get.
I think the point is that if you want to do nice typography and / or support many different scripts and languages, you need a lot of fonts, which have the potential to make the size explode with virtually no limits (think CJKV...). That is anyway one of the conclusions that have been reached during the recent thread on the TeX Live list (about a hypothetical "modern" scheme for TeX Live). Arthur
On 16-1-2011 4:44, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
Anyway: being the reference, the garden minimals are the starting point. If one chooses for luatex/mkiv only only a fraction is needed: it could be nice study to see how small it can get.
I think the point is that if you want to do nice typography and / or support many different scripts and languages, you need a lot of fonts, which have the potential to make the size explode with virtually no limits (think CJKV...). That is anyway one of the conclusions that have been reached during the recent thread on the TeX Live list (about a hypothetical "modern" scheme for TeX Live).
sure, but I think that texlive fonts sort of got out of hands ... all those encodings and split type 1 files (for cjk etc) ... with the modern engines we can do with way less fonts btw, personally i now only use <texroot>/fonts/data/vendor/collection and not the afm/tfm/type1/vf/... structure which already makes it more convenient to manage fonts Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, Hans has already said that, but I want to stress it: the most reasonable way to package ConTeXt in a distribution (Fink, or any other, for that matter), is to start from the "Minimals": http://minimals.contextgarden.net/. This is a (relatively) lightweight, stand-alone distribution for ConTeXt, and there shouldn't be any theoretical problems adapting it into a system like Fink (which doesn't mean it wouldn't need some effort!) Of all people, Mojca, you should have mentioned that! In any case, I don't believe that is true:
Well, seriously, if you want to install ConTeXt in fink, the very first thing that you have to do is to create a package for TeX Live 2010.
Why? If the TeX distributionn in Fink is so outdated (according to you; I haven't checked), why bother bringing it up-to-date when we don't need it in the first place?
Either way: creating a package for Fink is asking for troubles unless you create a proper TeX Live package first to replace teTeX. It will simplify things enormously for you.
Or you just create a stand-alone package for ConTeXt, mark it as incompatible with the rest of the TeX-related packages in Fink, and use it as such; just as you said yourself, actually. Arthur
On 16-1-2011 4:31, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
Why? If the TeX distributionn in Fink is so outdated (according to you; I haven't checked), why bother bringing it up-to-date when we don't need it in the first place?
if it also ships tetex, one also need to get rid of interferences due to set environment variables Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 16:31, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
In any case, I don't believe that is true:
Well, seriously, if you want to install ConTeXt in fink, the very first thing that you have to do is to create a package for TeX Live 2010.
Why? If the TeX distributionn in Fink is so outdated (according to you; I haven't checked), why bother bringing it up-to-date when we don't need it in the first place?
If he wanted to support MKII, it would conflict with the version of pdfTeX shipped with tetex. And environment variables could conflict as well. For MKIV it is doable.
Either way: creating a package for Fink is asking for troubles unless you create a proper TeX Live package first to replace teTeX. It will simplify things enormously for you.
Or you just create a stand-alone package for ConTeXt, mark it as incompatible with the rest of the TeX-related packages in Fink, and use it as such; just as you said yourself, actually.
The problem is a different one. I was not able to install gnuplot without installing tetex. And many other packages depend on tetex for no particular reason. If I was still using fink, packaged ConTeXt MKII would be of no use to me since other packages would depened on tetex. Mojca PS: If some Mac addict would be willing to help, it would be very useful to create ConTeXt.app. PPS: I really don't like fink, that's why my negative reactions were there ...
On 16-1-2011 5:21, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
The problem is a different one. I was not able to install gnuplot without installing tetex. And many other packages depend on tetex for no particular reason. If I was still using fink, packaged ConTeXt MKII would be of no use to me since other packages would depened on tetex.
the old setuptex shell script contain some 'env overloads' that concern tetex so that can be of help Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
Am 16.01.2011 um 17:21 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:
PS: If some Mac addict would be willing to help, it would be very useful to create ConTeXt.app.
Sounds like Hans standalone distributions for windows with scite as editor. Wolfgang
participants (5)
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Arthur Reutenauer -
Hans Hagen -
Julius Canute -
Mojca Miklavec -
Wolfgang Schuster