Am 29.11.2019 um 10:38 schrieb Hans Hagen:

Second: For some reasons I have not received your message. It wasn't in the Spam folder and I usually receive mails from the list. Any ideas? Are there some known problems?

Your mailbox host does some strange address checking (we run a mail server here and then go to the provider and it checks the internal server with a local address) ... there are some more on this list that bounce that way, like gmx, and i';ve given up bothering about it.  hans

Ok, what do you suggest? Change to a different mailserver for the list? Which hosts aren't prone to this problem? Or is there something I can change on my side? Denis

Am 2019-11-29 um 11:05 schrieb Denis Maier :

Am 29.11.2019 um 10:38 schrieb Hans Hagen:

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Second: For some reasons I have not received your message. It wasn't in the Spam folder and I usually receive mails from the list. Any ideas? Are there some known problems?

Your mailbox host does some strange address checking (we run a mail server here and then go to the provider and it checks the internal server with a local address) ... there are some more on this list that bounce that way, like gmx, and i';ve given up bothering about it. hans

Ok, what do you suggest? Change to a different mailserver for the list? Which hosts aren't prone to this problem? Or is there something I can change on my side?

The problem seems to be that traditional mailing lists like this just don’t work with modern security standards. I didn’t check how secure NTG’s mail server is configured, but changing subject and sender of every message is regarded harmful. Not doing that would mean that: * I can’t filter mails (visually or rule based) by subject any more. * A lot of replies would only go to the sender. * The connection of threads would get lost. (I see all of these on other lists.) So, using an address from a more tolerant (and maybe less secure) provider for lists like this would make sense. Greetlings, Hraban --- https://www.fiee.net http://wiki.contextgarden.net https://www.dreiviertelhaus.de GPG Key ID 1C9B22FD

Am 2019-11-29 um 12:31 schrieb Marco Patzer :

On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 12:10:46 +0100 Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

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The problem seems to be that traditional mailing lists like this just don’t work with modern security standards.

I didn’t check how secure NTG’s mail server is configured, but changing subject and sender of every message is regarded harmful. Not doing that would mean that: * I can’t filter mails (visually or rule based) by subject any more.

Sorting can easily be done using other headers , e.g. “List-Id”.

I know. That’s why I wrote "visually" and "by subject". If I must resolve to a webmailer where I didn’t setup all of my mail sorting rules, the visual clue of [Somelist] in the subject or at least a common sender helps a lot. And most people whose computers I get to see don’t sort their mails automatically (of course those usually also don’t subscribe to mailing lists like this). E.g. MacPorts list doesn’t modify sender or subject line and doesn’t add a footer – it’s hard to see that the messages belong to a mailing list.

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* A lot of replies would only go to the sender.

Very true.

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* The connection of threads would get lost.

Why? Threads are arranged by the “References” and “In-Reply-To” headers which are not modified.

Since some users don’t reply to the list, the threads get broken all the time. Best, Hraban