Hi, I'm recently testing mkiv/luatex (ConTeXt ver: 2008.07.18 18:38 MKIV fmt: 2008.7.19 installed; compiling with 'context file') for a new project. I don't know if my questions depend on mkii or mkiv specifics. I have some problems figuring out what kind of parameters I can use to setup footnotes in a multicolumn layout (is it better to use column sets and define areas?). When I'm using location=lastcolumn then footnotes get placed in the last column *inside* the text column while when using firstcolumn as an option they will be placed below the first column but outside the text column at the end of the page. And both columns don't get balanced. How can I get two text columns balanced and footnotes place on the last column at the end of the page? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - To illustrate what I want (x=text, m=footnote text): A) If the page is 'full' xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 1. nnnnnnnnnnn xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 2. nnnnnnnnnnn xxxxxxxxxxxxxx nnnnnnnnnnnnnn B) If the page is only partially filled: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 1. nnnnnnnnnnn 2. nnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - How can I get footnote numbers aligned with the left margin of the text/column block (margindistance=0em doesn't help)? Footnotes should run as a 'normal' paragraph (no hanging). I'm also quiet lost what options I can set with \setupfootnotes, because they are not explained in the manual (ma-cb-en-print.pdf, p. 46; cont-eni.pdf, p. 101) ... My test file looks like this: \setuplayout[grid=yes] \setupbodyfont [9pt] \setupfootnotes[location=lastcolumn,rule=off,numbercommand=\myfootnotenumber ] \def\myfootnotenumber#1{#1. } \starttext \startcolumns[n=2,tolerance=verytolerant] Hasselt is an old Hanseatic City, situated 12~km north of Zwolle at the river Zwartewater. The city has a long history since obtaining the city charter around 1252. Part and parcel of this history can be traced back to a large number of monuments to be admired in the city center.\footnote{Erste Fußnote!} There you will find the St. Stephanus church, a late gothic church dating back to 1479 with a magnificent organ. The former Municipal Building is situated on The Market Place. Constituted between 1500\footnote{Zweite Fußnote! Die kommt immer nach der ersten Fußnote und ist manchmal viel zu lang.} Hello World! \stopcolumns \stoptext Best regards, Ulrich P.S. the notepad++/context support seems broken with notepad++ v.5.00. I got TeX as a language but no menu entries for compiling ...
Hi Ulrich, On Sun, 20 Jul 2008, Ulrich Dirr wrote:
Hi,
I'm recently testing mkiv/luatex (ConTeXt ver: 2008.07.18 18:38 MKIV fmt: 2008.7.19 installed; compiling with 'context file') for a new project. I don't know if my questions depend on mkii or mkiv specifics.
I have some problems figuring out what kind of parameters I can use to setup footnotes in a multicolumn layout (is it better to use column sets and define areas?).
When I'm using location=lastcolumn then footnotes get placed in the last column *inside* the text column while when using firstcolumn as an option they will be placed below the first column but outside the text column at the end of the page. And both columns don't get balanced.
How can I get two text columns balanced and footnotes place on the last column at the end of the page?
Don't know. AFAIU, (simple) columns do not support this feature. For this to be supported, \stopcolumns will also need to end the currentpage. What should be the indented output for \startcolumns Some short text with footnotes \stopcolumns Continue with text that is in single column format. I do not know whether this is possible with columnsets.
How can I get footnote numbers aligned with the left margin of the text/column block (margindistance=0em doesn't help)? Footnotes should run as a 'normal' paragraph (no hanging).
Add \setupfootnotedefinition[location=normal,distance=0.5em]
I'm also quiet lost what options I can set with \setupfootnotes, because they are not explained in the manual (ma-cb-en-print.pdf, p. 46; cont-eni.pdf, p. 101) ...
Yes, at places the documentation is lagging behind. I can write about footnotes in the TUGBoat column about ConTeXt. When the manual is inadequate, I look at the sources. Once you figure out how to scan them for information, they are easy to understand. In this case, core-not.tex says that the options of \setupfootnotes are [\c!location=\v!page, \c!way=\v!by\v!part, \c!sectionnumber=\v!no, \c!conversion=, \c!rule=\v!on, \c!before=\blank, \c!bodyfont=\v!small, \c!style=, \c!color=, \c!after=, \c!rulecolor=, \c!rulethickness=\linewidth, \c!frame=\v!off, \c!margindistance=.5em, \c!columndistance=1em, \c!distance=.125em, \c!align=\v!normal, \c!tolerance=\v!tolerant, \c!split=\v!tolerant, %\c!width=\makeupwidth, %\c!width=\ifdim\hsize<\makeupwidth\hsize\else\makeupwidth\fi, \c!width=\defaultnotewidth, \c!height=\textheight, \c!numbercommand=\high, \c!command=\noteparameter\c!numbercommand, % downward compatible \c!separator=\@@koseparator, \c!textcommand=\high, \c!textstyle=\tx, \c!textcolor=, \c!interaction=\v!yes, \c!factor=, \c!scope=, % \v!text \v!page \c!n=1]% Aditya
Hi Aditya, thank you for your help! On 2008-07-20 Aditya Mahajan wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008, Ulrich Dirr wrote:
I'm recently testing mkiv/luatex (ConTeXt ver: 2008.07.18 18:38 MKIV fmt: 2008.7.19 installed; compiling with 'context file') for a new project. I don't know if my questions depend on mkii or mkiv specifics.
I have some problems figuring out what kind of parameters I can use to setup footnotes in a multicolumn layout (is it better to use column sets and define areas?).
When I'm using location=lastcolumn then footnotes get placed in the last column *inside* the text column while when using firstcolumn as an option they will be placed below the first column but outside the text column at the end of the page. And both columns don't get balanced.
How can I get two text columns balanced and footnotes place on the last column at the end of the page? [...] I do not know whether this is possible with columnsets.
I will test this with columnsets.
How can I get footnote numbers aligned with the left margin of the text/column block (margindistance=0em doesn't help)? Footnotes should run as a 'normal' paragraph (no hanging).
Add
\setupfootnotedefinition[location=normal,distance=0.5em]
Ah, interesting. I didn't find this option for location in the docs.
I'm also quiet lost what options I can set with \setupfootnotes, because they are not explained in the manual (ma-cb-en-print.pdf, p. 46; cont-eni.pdf, p. 101) ...
Yes, at places the documentation is lagging behind. I can write about footnotes in the TUGBoat column about ConTeXt.
When the manual is inadequate, I look at the sources. Once you figure out how to scan them for information, they are easy to understand. In this case, core-not.tex says that the options of \setupfootnotes are
[\c!location=\v!page, \c!way=\v!by\v!part, \c!sectionnumber=\v!no, \c!conversion=, \c!rule=\v!on, \c!before=\blank, \c!bodyfont=\v!small, \c!style=, \c!color=, \c!after=, \c!rulecolor=, \c!rulethickness=\linewidth, \c!frame=\v!off, \c!margindistance=.5em, \c!columndistance=1em, \c!distance=.125em, \c!align=\v!normal, \c!tolerance=\v!tolerant, \c!split=\v!tolerant, %\c!width=\makeupwidth, %\c!width=\ifdim\hsize<\makeupwidth\hsize\else\makeupwidth\fi, \c!width=\defaultnotewidth, \c!height=\textheight, \c!numbercommand=\high, \c!command=\noteparameter\c!numbercommand, % downward compatible \c!separator=\@@koseparator, \c!textcommand=\high, \c!textstyle=\tx, \c!textcolor=, \c!interaction=\v!yes, \c!factor=, \c!scope=, % \v!text \v!page \c!n=1]%
Aditya
O.k. I could look in the source too, but where did you read 'location=normal'? Also I don't know what other option are allowed, e.g., in \numbercommand or \split. Only the default values are here as I understand. Anyway. How can I get that footnotes just flows as a standard paragraph (no hanging indentation)? Best regards, Ulrich
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Ulrich Dirr wrote:
O.k. I could look in the source too, but where did you read 'location=normal'?
That is just from knowing how the footnotes work. In ConTeXt footnotes consist of two this, a number and the note definition. The note definition is defined as a description, location=normal is an option for descriptions.
Also I don't know what other option are allowed, e.g., in \numbercommand or \split. Only the default values are here as I understand.
numbercommand can be any predefined (or one that you define on your own) ConTeXt macro. By default, it is \inleft, and hence you see the footnotes in the margin. I do not know what split does, but just by seeing that by default it is defined to be tolerant, the other options should be verystrict, strict, tolerant, verytolerant, and they should control how the splitting of columns work. This is the good thing about ConTeXt; key value options are extremently consistent, once you know what values a particular key takes for one environment, you can guess what it will do for others (well, I could be wrong in case of footnotes, but ...)
Anyway. How can I get that footnotes just flows as a standard paragraph (no hanging indentation)?
\setupfootnotedefinition[location=serried, distance=0.5em] Aditya
Hi Aditya, Thank you very much for your explanations. Where in the documentation did you find 'serried'? I think my biggest problem is that I don't know which values are possible options and what's the meaning (this should be in the docs I think). Best regards, Ulrich On 2008-07-21 Aditya Mahajan wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Ulrich Dirr wrote:
O.k. I could look in the source too, but where did you read 'location=normal'?
That is just from knowing how the footnotes work. In ConTeXt footnotes consist of two this, a number and the note definition. The note definition is defined as a description, location=normal is an option for descriptions.
Also I don't know what other option are allowed, e.g., in \numbercommand or \split. Only the default values are here as I understand.
numbercommand can be any predefined (or one that you define on your own) ConTeXt macro. By default, it is \inleft, and hence you see the footnotes in the margin. I do not know what split does, but just by seeing that by default it is defined to be tolerant, the other options should be verystrict, strict, tolerant, verytolerant, and they should control how the splitting of columns work.
This is the good thing about ConTeXt; key value options are extremently consistent, once you know what values a particular key takes for one environment, you can guess what it will do for others (well, I could be wrong in case of footnotes, but ...)
Anyway. How can I get that footnotes just flows as a standard paragraph (no hanging indentation)?
\setupfootnotedefinition[location=serried, distance=0.5em]
Aditya ______________________________________________________________________ ______ _______ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
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On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Ulrich Dirr wrote:
Hi Aditya,
Thank you very much for your explanations. Where in the documentation did you find 'serried'?
serried is in the documentation for desciprtions. texshow also lists serried as one of the options for descriptions. I know the options for descriptions and enumerations very well because I spent about three months in extending enumerations for taking care of theorems and stuff.
I think my biggest problem is that I don't know which values are possible options and what's the meaning (this should be in the docs I think).
Most old options are in the docs, many of the new ones are not. The manual can never be uptodate with the rate at which ConTeXt is developing, but we definitely need to work at specialized manuals which describe one of the features of ConTeXt in great detail. Aditya
Goden Dag, although my primary field of ConTeXt questions is marginal notes, I use to read the "footnote" threads on NTG-context with curiousness as well . Am 20.07.2008 um 19:50 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:
When the manual is inadequate, I look at the sources.
=> Which sorces, wich directory and kind of files are meant, if one says "look at the source", where do I find them? (On my TeX-life distribution on Mac OSX 10.4x Tiger with actualized ConTeXt I didn't find the later mentioned "core-not.tex")
Once you figure out how to scan them for information,
=> Could one comunicate "how to scan them for infomation" or must that stay a secret?
they are easy to understand. [I repeat: "easy to understand"!]
In this case, core-not.tex says that the options of \setupfootnotes are
[\c!location=\v!page, \c!way=\v!by\v!part, \c!sectionnumber=\v!no, \c!conversion=, \c!rule=\v!on, [etc. and so on...]
Nothing of this and the following code lines I can understand, so it is not "easy" - albeit that one knows the syntax and meanings of these commands. => Where can I find an explanation of this, not to write this kind of code myself but to understand off it, which kind of commands I can use with footnotes (in this case)? Ulrich Dirr, who had posed the question about his kind of footnotes asked back 21.07.2008 at 09:09:
O.k. I could look in the source too, but where did you read 'location=normal'? Also I don't know what other option are allowed, e.g., in \numbercommand or \split. Only the default values are here as I understand.
I support this question (only that I don't know how to look in the sorce yet...) Goutgaun! Joachim Kreimer-de Fries, simpel user and beginner in ConTeXt P. S. An OT-question besides: does anyone know an file manager program instead of the mac Finder, which allows me to find files in the hidden directories of Mac-OSX in a GUI way instead of unix terminal commands "cd", "ls" and "find"?
Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:
P. S. An OT-question besides: does anyone know an file manager program instead of the mac Finder, which allows me to find files in the hidden directories of Mac-OSX in a GUI way instead of unix terminal commands "cd", "ls" and "find"
you can type "open /path/to/the directory you want/" in your terminal, and then use the finder with the previously hidden dirs. Cheers, Jörg
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Jörg Hagmann
Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:
P. S. An OT-question besides: does anyone know an file manager program instead of the mac Finder, which allows me to find files in the hidden directories of Mac-OSX in a GUI way instead of unix terminal commands "cd", "ls" and "find"
you can type "open /path/to/the directory you want/" in your terminal, and then use the finder with the previously hidden dirs.
Finder -> Go -> Goto Wolfgang
Finder -> Go -> Goto
Yes, if you know where to go: Open the Terminal and type defaults write com.apple.Finder AppleShowAllFiles YES relaunch the Finder and you can see everything (and back with NO and relaunch) Best -a-
Wolfgang ______________________________________________________________________ _____________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ______________________________________________________________________ _____________
-------------------------------------------------- Andrea Valle -------------------------------------------------- CIRMA - DAMS Università degli Studi di Torino --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/ --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle --> andrea.valle@unito.it -------------------------------------------------- " Think of it as seasoning . noise [salt] is boring . F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring . F(noise, blah) can be really tasty " (Ken Perlin on noise)
On Jul 21, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:
=> Which sorces, wich directory and kind of files are meant, if one says "look at the source", where do I find them? (On my TeX-life distribution on Mac OSX 10.4x Tiger with actualized ConTeXt I didn't find the later mentioned "core-not.tex")
It is part of any ConTeXt installation. In a terminal window, type kpsewhere core-not.tex and you'll see that you have at least one instance of this file on your system. "man kpsewhich" may be interesting to read if you want to know how to find files in your TeX installation, possibly more than one.
Once you figure out how to scan them for information,
=> Could one comunicate "how to scan them for infomation" or must that stay a secret?
You could grep for terms that you're looking for: grep setupfootnotes /usr/local/texlive/texmf-local/tex/context/base/*
An OT-question besides: does anyone know an file manager program instead of the mac Finder, which allows me to find files in the hidden directories of Mac-OSX in a GUI way instead of unix terminal commands "cd", "ls" and "find"?
We had an interesting discussion about GUI and command line recently. I rest my case: you shouldn't be looking for a GUI tool, but learn to use the command line. By the way, there is n option to make the Mac Finder display hidden directories, but to enable it, you'll have to use the command line... Thomas
=> Could one comunicate "how to scan them for infomation" or must that stay a secret?
they are easy to understand. [I repeat: "easy to understand"!]
I totally agree with you, it's really useless to invite to read the sources without providing a tutorial on source reading for non expert TeX users.
Ulrich Dirr, who had posed the question about his kind of footnotes asked back 21.07.2008 at 09:09:
O.k. I could look in the source too, but where did you read 'location=normal'? Also I don't know what other option are allowed, e.g., in \numbercommand or \split. Only the default values are here as I understand.
I support this question (only that I don't know how to look in the sorce yet...)
Me too Best -a- -------------------------------------------------- Andrea Valle -------------------------------------------------- CIRMA - DAMS Università degli Studi di Torino --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/ --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle --> andrea.valle@unito.it -------------------------------------------------- " Think of it as seasoning . noise [salt] is boring . F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring . F(noise, blah) can be really tasty " (Ken Perlin on noise)
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Joachim Kreimer-de Fries wrote:
Goden Dag, although my primary field of ConTeXt questions is marginal notes, I use to read the "footnote" threads on NTG-context with curiousness as well .
Am 20.07.2008 um 19:50 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:
When the manual is inadequate, I look at the sources.
=> Which sorces, wich directory and kind of files are meant, if one says "look at the source", where do I find them? (On my TeX-life distribution on Mac OSX 10.4x Tiger with actualized ConTeXt I didn't find the later mentioned "core-not.tex")
I do not know how the file explorer in Mac works. And I do not know where a typical installation installs context in Mac. Suppose it is installed in /usr/local/texlive/2007. The all the context files will be in /usr/local/texlive/2007/texmf-dist/tex/context/base Basically, INSTALL-LOCATION/texmf or INTSTALL-LOCATION/texmf-dist or INSTALL-LOCATION/texmf-context and then tex/context/base directory inside it.
Once you figure out how to scan them for information,
=> Could one comunicate "how to scan them for infomation" or must that stay a secret?
The basic idea is to first understand how a particular command is defined. Here is what I do: go to tex/context/base directory and search (by any means, I use grep, but you can as well use any program that allows you to search inside files) for the command you are looking for: in this case footnote. You may either get a huge number of results, or a few results. If you get a few results, check them manually, to see which file defines a command. A command is usually defined as \def\commandname or (rarely) \edef\commandname \xdef\commandname \gdef\commandname or (more frequently) \define<something>[\v!commandname] here <something> can be any text. If your search gives a lot of results, you need to use a regular expression to filter it to one of the above. I don't know if Finder in Mac allows for regular expressions.
they are easy to understand. [I repeat: "easy to understand"!]
I know what you mean here :)
In this case, core-not.tex says that the options of \setupfootnotes are
[\c!location=\v!page, \c!way=\v!by\v!part, \c!sectionnumber=\v!no, \c!conversion=, \c!rule=\v!on, [etc. and so on...]
Nothing of this and the following code lines I can understand, so it is not "easy" - albeit that one knows the syntax and meanings of these commands.
As far as syntax goes, just ignore those funny \c! \v! thingies. Then you can read them as [location=page, way=bypart, sectionnumber=no, conversion=, rule=on, [etc..] These mean, that i) Footnotes should be located per page. ii) They should be numbered per part. That is, if you start a new part, footnote numbering restarts. iii) I don't know what sectionnumber does, so I ignore it. iv) The number should not be converted to anything. You can convert them to characters, Characters, romannumerals, Romannumberals, etc. v) The footnotes should be proceeded by a rule, etc. You see, most of the keys for all environments take command key-value options. If they are explained in the manual, then great; if they are not, start guessing what they mean, and experiment if you get the right result. Try three times, and if you don't get hit the right answer, ask on the mailing list. Hopefully, someone will reply. Then you know, what a particular option does for *all environments*. If you don't get an answer, well... then ask what you want to achieve, and hopefully someone will tell you if it is possible or not.
=> Where can I find an explanation of this, not to write this kind of code myself but to understand off it, which kind of commands I can use with footnotes (in this case)?
I explained above how I started to understand these things. I am sure that other people have different approaches. I do not understand how TeX works, but reading ConTeXt sources are much easier than reading latex sources. I started with LaTeX, and in LaTeX I could never manage to understand 80% of the what was written in the sources. In ConTeXt, I can understand 50-60%, that is what I meant my "easy". Aditya
participants (7)
-
Aditya Mahajan -
Andrea Valle -
Joachim Kreimer-de Fries -
Jörg Hagmann -
Thomas A. Schmitz -
Ulrich Dirr -
Wolfgang Schuster